I did this interview via email with Dan a few years back now for an old zine I was doing. Needless to say it was never published. I've managed to take out a couple of questions that were outdated. What is posted below are the more relative parts of the interview. A lot of the questions were based around Paint it Black as they are his more recent band I figured he would want to talk about that more. Dan was a great guy and a pleasure to communicate with. He even asked for a copy of my zine when it was done. That zine as you can probably guess was never printed. I bet its time for me to print up a special one just for him.
I figured I would change it up on this interview and work backwards, so here it goes. Recently PIB put out two 7” EP’s on two different labels (Fat Wreck Chords, Bridge 9) what made you decide to do that?
We just thought it was time to start switching up the way we do things. When you’ve been making music for a long time its easy to get stuck in habits and patterns, which can totally undercut your creativity in a lot of ways. This can easily become a huge blind spot, so its pretty easy to get predictable and boring without realizing it. After 3 full-length LP’s we realized that no hardcore/punk band has put out more than 3 great albums, and we weren’t arrogant enough to think we’d be the band to beat that, although to be fair, we are pretty arrogant. The 7” EP has always been an ideal format for the type of music we play, and it radically changes the way we write music too, so for now that’s the format we will be using.
I feel like I can listen to both of those records back to back, why did you decide to record both of the EP’s at the same time?
Those decisions are usually practical rather than artistic. Getting 5 (4 members of PIB plus Kurt Ballou) insanely busy people together at the same time is really difficult, so it made sense to do all the recording at once if we wanted to get both of these EP’s out in 2009.
You guys have had the opportunity to work with many different labels over the coarse of your career, from Jade Tree, to Fat Wreck Chords, Bridge 9, reflections, and Rivalry. Why such versatility?
Collaboration is a great thing and the more people that we have the opportunity to collaborate with the better, and the more we learn. I learned my lesson the hard way in Kid Dynamite, when I tried to exert control over everything and minimize input from other people. It’s a fucking disaster, and it blew up in my face.
You recently did a small tour with Naked Raygun, and i know you are a big fan of the legendary punk outfit, what was that experience like for you to be able to tour with one of your favorite bands?
It was amazing. First of all, having Jeff sing with us in New Lexicon was just about the most exciting thing ever. Those “whoa oh” anthems that Raygun mastered in the 80’s were such an important part of my musical upbringing, and when I wrote that song I obviously had Naked Raygun in mind. That he agreed to sing it, we had a relationship grow out of that, which resulted in them asking us to go on tour, was one of the coolest things that have come out of making music. That band was ridiculous, they combined these inspiring, uplifting Brit-punk style choruses with what were often pretty dark, misanthropic, weird segments that really challenged the typical notion of punk songwriting.
Due to your profession, PIB very rarely gets out on the road, and when you do its only for a few weeks at a time. Do you find it rewarding to be able to get out and enjoy some free time playing music after months of working?
The fact that we tour so infrequently makes it that much more exciting when we actually do get out of Philly and tour. I literally spend months looking forward to it. Also, we set goals for ourselves and then bust our asses to accomplish them. Our goals our probably pretty modest compared to a lot of younger bands that tour all year, but its been really exciting to say, at the end of 2008, “hey this was a great year, we put out an album (New Lexicon) that was really challenging and felt really successful to us, we organized and hosted a record release Fest in our home city, toured more then we ever have, that was awesome. Next year we went to record two 7” EP’s with Kurt up in Boston, release them on different labels, and do a UK tour with our buddies Ceremony,” and then accomplish everything we set out to do.
I’ve read in previous interviews that you have a doctorate degree in psychology. There are many things you can do with that degree, what is it you currently do in the field?
I have a private practice as a psychotherapist. I work with mostly adolescents and young adults, and some younger kids as well.
How is that working out?
It’s really fulfilling, and flexible enough so that I can spend a lot of time with my family and continue to be pretty active as a “musician.” My feeling is that whether you’re intellectually inclined or more inclined toward physical labor, being self-employed is a good thing for any punk to aspire to. The only stupidity I have to deal with on a day-to-day basis is my own. Whether you’re a carpenter, a doctor, a tattoo artist, a show promoter, or a graphic designer, many of the happiest people I know have their own businesses.
Much like your previous bands you’ve had a key impact on the writing process, do you still do a lot of that with PIB?
Yes. I come to the band with pretty much all the parts written for each song, and then Andy, Jared, and Josh work with me to hammer out all the arrangements, which is equally important, otherwise 90% of my songs would just go: A, B, A, B, C with not much variation. I write the lyrics in this band for the first time in my life.
When you sit down and write songs, what is your strategy, do you tell yourself that you need to write a song that sounds a certain way or do you tend not to think too much about it?
I just try to play a little bit each day, and whatever comes out is what we use. I try to have a pretty heavy filter, so that the boring stuff never leaves my practice room. The goal of Paint It Black has been to have a hardcore punk band that has room for a pretty wide range of influences, so that if I come up with something that sounds more like Soulside and Interpol than Poison Idea or Gorilla Biscuits, we can still run with it.
Do you find it harder each time you sit down to record a new record? To me it seems impossible to make a better record than New Lexicon, but surely you guys have done it.
We try not to invite that kind of pressure, always having to compete with ourselves like that. We just try to keep it honest and interesting, and to allow ourselves room for re-invention and experimentation, while still always keeping in mind that what we do is firmly rooted in the musical traditions of punk in the early 80’s. But we’re really careful not to cut corners and to spend a lot time and energy making sure we’re really happy with everything before we record.
Lets talk a little about the song “Salem” of the new record. The lyrics in that song stand out a lot to me and especially the line “So remember the next time you’re kneeling for communion, They want us locked down and mute.” To me it seems like its directed towards religion, what’s the meaning behind the song?
It’s directed specifically towards fundamentalist elements in organized religion. If people want or need a group experience of spirituality that’s cool with me, but the minute you start telling other people how to live, you've crossed a line. This song is even more specifically about the attempts to legitimize creationism as something legitimate to teach in public school alongside evolution/natural selection. There’s always a lot of sexism and homophobia built in to fundamentalist expressions of religion, which is obviously fucked. In my opinion, the far-right evangelicals in this country are every bit as dangerous as the extremists that the U.S. is at war with in the middle east.
You’ve had a very successful musical career to date, what are some of your favorite highlights from all of the bands you’ve done in the past and with PIB?
Too many to mention really. Regardless of the band, I love the feeling that comes right when a new record gets released. I always feel really proud and elated, like we’ve actually accomplished something important.
Let's flash back now to the beginning and talk a little about how Paint it Black came to form, who started the band and what were the intentions starting off?
I had taken a break from playing music after Kid Dynamite broke up. I had been working about 60 hours a week as a psychologist, and had very little time for anything else. I’d thrown myself into working that much partly because I was frustrated and disappointed after Kid Dynamite broke up. I felt really helpless, and part of my reaction to that helplessness was to pursue a type of work that didn’t put me in a position of relying on other people. Of course that also has the result of isolating you. In April of 2001 I suffered a stroke and spent a chunk of time in the hospital. Being forced to grapple with mortality at that young an age left me to consider what things were really important to me and whether the way I spent my time reflected that. I decided that I was really much less happy when I wasn’t actively creating music. Started the band with David and Michael, both of whom had played in Kid Dynamite, Dave Hause, who had traveled with us a lot, and Matt, who I believe had played in Catharsis, and was a recent transplant to Philly. The lineup has changed alot over the years. Originally I wanted it to be straight up thrash like Los Crudos or something like that, but I found that the melody kept creeping back into it.
Why did you decide to go with the name Paint It Black? Are you a big rolling stones fan or is there something else with the name that people don’t know?
Definitely not a big Rolling Stones fan. But I am a big Ink & Dagger fan. Definitely the best band to ever come out of our city. There’s a line at the end of Full Circle, where Sean yells “Paint it black, I want it back!” It sounded so badass.
Over the course of PIB’s existence you guys have done multiple records, eps and a demo, looking back on that when do you think you had the most fun writing/recording and playing shows with this band?
The current lineup (from New Lexicon onward) is the most fun, hands down. It’s so easy to get things done, and creatively I’m the happiest with our output that I’ve ever been. I feel really challenged and I trust everyone in a way that feels new to me.
I’m sure i don’t need to say this but you have been around in the hardcore/punk scene for a long time now, what got you into the music and what made you decide to get involved and starting writing songs?
The whole punk thing that emphasizes enthusiasm over professionalism really had a huge impact on me, and helped empower me to feel like I could do it. I’m definitely not a particularly good guitar player. Everyone in all my bands is better than me in terms of physical skill. But I’ve always had a lot of idea.
First Show?
Reagan Youth and Cause For Alarm, New York City, 1984. Other life-changing shows were Circle Jerks in ’86, Sonic Youth in ’86, Dag Nasty/Verbal Assault/Government Issue in ’87, Dinosaur Jr. in ’87, Poison Idea in ’88.
I find that musical taste changes over the course of ones life, what were you listening to at age 15, 21, and what do you find yourself listening to now?
At 15 it was mostly the Clash, Sex Pistols, The Jam, Generation X, Buzzcocks, Minor Threat, The Cure, The Smiths, New Order, Elvis Costello & the Attractions, Echo & The Bunnymen. At 21 it was Youth of Today, Side By Side, Dag Nasty, Verbal Assault, Gorilla Biscuits, Bad Brains, Agnostic Front, All, Descendents, Swans, Live Skull, Sonic Youth, Embrace, Fugazi, Rites of Spring, Deep Wound, De La Soul, Dinosaur Jr., Public Enemy, Boogie Down Productions, N.W.A. Now its Superchunk, Talk Is Poison, MF Doom, Aesop Rock, Ceremony, Converge, Bikini Kill, Botch, Career Suicide, Huggy Bear, Limpwrist, Deerhunter, Dillinger Four, Disfear, Doomtree, Team Dresch, Chavez, Company Flow, Sean Price, Econochrist, plus everything I listened to when I was 15 and 21.
The phrase “Underground” in reference to music has became sort of a popular name in todays culture. Some bands are referred to as such but manage to play in front of thousands of fans and be on the top billboard charts. How do you feel about this and what do you consider truly underground if there even is such a term anymore?
I feel like there are different layers of “underground” at this point in history. There is what I think of as “fake underground” which consists of bands that aren’t on the top 40 radio radar but can grace the cover of Alternative Press or play on one of the big stages at Warped Tour. Then there’s the “legitimate underground” that you would actually have to do some digging to know about, or hang out with actual weirdos to understand. I think it takes intense curiosity and/or alienation to connect to what I think of as the legit underground. I’m not trying to make value judgments about either type of music, but this is sort of an over-simplification of the way I see things.
I wanted to say congratulations on recently becoming a father, how does it feel and how has fatherhood been treating you so far?
It’s amazing. I’m constantly falling in love with my daughter all over again, every day, and parenthood finds me falling in love with my wife all over again everyday too, just as a result of sharing this experience with her. A lot of punks are skeptical about breeding, about bringing new life into such a fucked up world, but I think raising smart kids with strong values is a great way of ensuring that there are people to work for the future of our species, assuming we have a future… I’m doing a blog about parenting and music at soundonsound.tumblr.com
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